Casino Theo

 
Casino Theo 5,8/10 7457 reviews
mds

Casino terms lingo and jargon defines the language spoken by Casino Players worldwide. Part 2 of this series continues the glossary of casino terminology. We created this all inclusive series for people to understand the unique words and phrases used by passionate players for their real money games. Taken over by Bally's; Casino closed + sold (now a Radisson non-casino property) Golden Nugget Atlantic City: Atlantic City: Atlantic: New Jersey: Marina: Formerly Trump Castle, Trump Marina. Harrah's Atlantic City: Atlantic City: Atlantic: New Jersey: Marina: First casino to open in Marina District; Formerly Harrah's Marina Resorts Casino.

So a very open Casino host answered a question I directly asked him....
Blackjack at .015? 60 hands an hour? Pretty fair?
HOST:
I will use the following theoretical formula:
Theoretical = (Average bet x hours played x hands per hour) x (House Edge / 100)
$750 Ave. X 28 hours X 60 hands X .015 = 18,900 is your theoretical
From that theoretical we consider 35% as your earned comps. 18,900 X .35 = $6,615
This is how we handle comps when using theoretical, we also consider 10% of loss, whatever is higher.
This figures are based on 4 hours of play a day, an average of $ 750 and at the game of Black Jack.
Results vary depending of game, time and average bet.

Theoretical Win (Theo) Of all the numbers that describe a casino player, the one that is most often sought out by marketing is the theoretical win (theo). This number describes the expected house win for a player, based on the total amount wagered by the player and the game played.

geoff
This is about the average to expect. Depending on the property they'll either use the actual loss rate of the blackjack table you play at or they'll use the best rate in the casino (usually the high limit table which the .015 is). 60 Hands an hour is a bit on the low side, but again they want to get as much out as possible.
AcesAndEights
.015? Huh? What am I missing here?
'So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust.' -ontariodealer
odiousgambit

.015? Huh? What am I missing here?


wondering the same thingCasino
Quote: WoO link, bottom of page

Blackjack - 70 hands/hr at 0.75% (for comps)

Casino Theo
http://wizardofodds.com/gambling/house-edge/
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
FleaStiff
The formula seems correct though that 0.15 probably means you were at a very favorable blackjack game in a HIGH LIMIT room.
MOST casinos focus on your 'THEO' and you should always know what your ACTUAL theo is, since their records reflect their impressions and estimates about your 'theo'.
MOST casinos base comps on your theoretical value (ie, expected losses) and only adjust this figure for massive actual losses and less often for massive actual wins. They focus on what you risked rather than how you actually did. Since your long term value to the casino is what you able and willing to RISK, not your personal variance in the short term. The casino focuses on your long term value to them and protects that value by short term actions to keep you happy.
Casinos will generally sweeten your comps a bit for a massive win so as to make you really want to come back. Most casinos will sweeten comps a bit if you had a very impressive and rapid loss so as to make the rest of your stay relatively pleasant particularly if you have a spouse or spouse equivalent with you who expect fancy restaurants rather than fast food joints. However, actual results have to be really spectacular (either as win or loss) before they will depart from their standard formula.
BleedingChipsSlowly
Interesting thread, thanks for starting it, mds. 'Theo' is a mystical thing hosts hint at but never discuss directly with clients; at least that's how it is where I go. I have heard the 'four hours of play a day' mentioned many times over the years. That seems to be the gold standard for defining serious customers. That is, I believe the play-time parameter in the formula is regarded as more important that it's mathematical weight when hosts evaluate a customer. I have tried to educate some folks about how they are evaluated. They whine about how much money they have lost, thinking that is the only measure of worth. My standard line is, 'They only care about how much you bet, your luck or lack of it is your problem, not theirs.' That reasoning is seldom believed.
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation.” - Robert Jordan, former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia
CrystalMath
Actually, 0.015 is 1.5%, which is rather high.
MangoJ

MOST casinos base comps on your theoretical value (ie, expected losses) and only adjust this figure for massive actual losses and less often for massive actual wins. They focus on what you risked rather than how you actually did. Since your long term value to the casino is what you able and willing to RISK, not your personal variance in the short term. The casino focuses on your long term value to them and protects that value by short term actions to keep you happy.


Although the comps should based on expected loss rather than actual losses - the house does it for different reasons than stated above. If comps are based on actual losses, the house is widely open for systematic exploitation.
mds

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it, mds. 'Theo' is a mystical thing hosts hint at but never discuss directly with clients; at least that's how it is where I go. I have heard the 'four hours of play a day' mentioned many times over the years. That seems to be the gold standard for defining serious customers. That is, I believe the play-time parameter in the formula is regarded as more important that it's mathematical weight when hosts evaluate a customer. I have tried to educate some folks about how they are evaluated. They whine about how much money they have lost, thinking that is the only measure of worth. My standard line is, 'They only care about how much you bet, your luck or lack of it is your problem, not theirs.' That reasoning is seldom believed.


I get that all the time from friends. They lose 3000 in an hour or less and want 3 nights at RFB or RFBI... Just doesn't work that way. Most importantly, to the Casino it's about hours played. As you put in more play time that's when you will lose. You will get comped more but you will lose at the tables. In other words, just pay for your room food and beverage yourself! Why lose 4000 at the tables to get a 200 a night room comped? Short term winners and long term losers. Except if you are an AP. Should be opposite.
FleaStiff

Although the comps should based on expected loss rather than actual losses - the house does it for different reasons than stated above. If comps are based on actual losses, the house is widely open for systematic exploitation.

Actual losses if rather whopping or early in one's stay will merely 'sweeten' the comps that are based on a player's theo. The sweetener is modest since in most circumstances only Theo is considered.
Time at Table can be three hours but it seems four is simply more impressive by a profound amount and it is rumored that at the Venetian the four hour mark is critical.
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In the context of casinos, comps are complimentary items and services given out by casinos to encourage players to gamble.[1] The amount and quality of comps that a player is given usually depends on a combination of factors: what game(s) they play, how much they bet, and how long they play.

Most casinos have casino hosts who are responsible for giving out free items and contacting players to bring them back to the casino. Pit bosses can also award comps at table games. Most casinos now urge players to obtain a player's club or similar card, so that their play can be tracked and comps awarded.[1]

Levels[edit]

The lowest level of comp available at most casinos is free alcohol and other beverages. Many casinos provide free drinks to anyone who is gambling.[1]

Casino Theo Win

The second level of comp that many players earn is free self-parking, lounge access, or free meals. Many casinos have several players lounges and restaurants, and may require more play to earn a comp to higher-end restaurants. Often the player is given a certain amount to spend, but sometimes, particularly with high rollers, the player may be given the right to order as much food as they want and to bring guests.[citation needed]

The next level of comps is usually free hotel rooms, free valet parking, and free access to more exclusive VIP or 'high roller' lounges. Many casinos have attached hotels, but those that do not may have the ability to comp rooms to a hotel nearby.[citation needed] Many casino hotels have higher quality rooms, such as suites, villas, presidential suites, and so on for bigger bettors or VIP guests. Many players who receive hotel rooms receive a package called 'RFB' (for 'room, food, and beverage') or 'RF' (for 'room and food') for smaller bettors, or in jurisdictions where casinos are not allowed to give free alcohol.[citation needed]

Casino theoretical win

Many casinos also offer other comps, especially to high rollers. These may include airfare reimbursement, limo rides, tickets to shows, golf, free concierge services, cash back, money to show up in the casino, loss rebates, private gaming areas, and private jet service.[2]

Casinos also frequently offer players comps by mail or email, or in casino apps. These may be free bet offers, free meals, discounted or free rooms, or entries into tournaments or prize drawings.[3] These offers will often come with terms and conditions that establish the rollover and wagering requirements.[4] An aspect most users overlook and the main cause for winnings withdrawal rejection.

Some casinos contract with bus companies to bring players in. Riders often enjoy free slot play, dining coupons, and other benefits, often worth as much as the bus fare itself.[5]

Calculation[edit]

Technically, every player may be offered comps, but most casinos require players to have played for a given period of time and play at a certain level, i.e., the duration of play and amount wagered are directly proportional to the level of expected comps. What games are played are also factors.[6] Casinos award comps based on a player's Average Daily Theoretical loss, also known as ADT, theoretical loss, or 'theo' for short. The theoretical loss is the amount of money a player is expected to lose based on the long run statistical advantage the casino has on the particular game being played.[7][8]

Theoretical loss algorithms differ somewhat among casinos,[9][10] but in general, the logic behind the calculation is as follows:

Theoretical Loss = (Casino Advantage) × (Total Wager)[citation needed]

Hustling[edit]

Players known as 'comp counters', 'comp hustlers', or 'comp wizards'[11] attempt to maximize the amount of comps they receive while minimizing their expected gambling losses.[12][13] Comp hustlers play games with a low house advantage, such as blackjack or video poker, or games with small bet sizes, such as penny slots. Comp hustlers may use tactics such as placing large bets when a pit boss is checking their bet size to rate them for comps, and then moving to a smaller bet size when the boss is not watching. They may also take frequent breaks from playing, play at full tables to be dealt fewer hands per hour, and play more slowly.[12] Comp hustling is a type of advantage gambling if the player is able to hustle more in comps than their average cost of gambling.[14] And the author of 'How to Get a Dollar in Casino Comps for Every Dime You Lose Gambling', in their summary of key takeaways from Max Rubin's book, Comp City,[15] observes: 'The next step up from being a comp wizard is to become a comp counter. These players have specific knowledge and skills that enable them to combine a low house edge with comps in order to profit.' Another step up are practitioners of 'ACES (Advanced Comp Earning System). People practicing this kind of system earn a dollar's worth of comps for every dime they lose gambling.'[16]

Casino Theoretical Win

Online[edit]

Online casinos, poker rooms, and sportsbooks offer a variety of bonuses that are similar to brick and mortar casino comps. Also similarly, comp hustlers and advantage players can use these bonuses to turn a profit via bonus hunting, or can convert these comps to a guaranteed profit using the technique of matched betting.

Many online casino operators are aware of the potential for losing money while giving out bonuses. As such, there is often a minimum wagering requirement for cashing out.

Some casinos will limit the payout in case of a win. Also, they may restrict players from playing certain games, often those games with a low house advantage. And, they may require players to bet the bonus amount multiple times before being able to cash out. For example, a casino may require a player to bet the bonus amount 50 times before being able to cash out. So, for a $100 bonus, a player would have to bet $5,000 before being able to cash out. Therefore, it is advantageous for players to check the wagering requirements of a bonus.[17] All bonuses have a turnover requirement. This means that placing a certain number of wagers, such as turnover 5x, means wagering 5 times the bonus. Most online casinos distinguish two types of bonuses: a no deposit bonus and a deposit bonus. First one does not require from a user to make a deposit at a casino in order to start playing. A deposit bonus requires from a user to make a deposit of certain amount of funds to start playing at the casino. Both of these type bonuses apply to terms and conditions of turnover requirements.[18]

References[edit]

  1. ^ abc'Keeping Customers Happy in Casinos'. ABCNews. November 1, 2007.
  2. ^'Cashback Casino Bonuses'. Best Online Casino Offers.
  3. ^Grochowski, John (17 June 2003). 'Comps - The Basics'. Casino City Times.
  4. ^'Rollover and Wagering Requirements'. Onlineunitedstatescasinos.com. Retrieved 7 October 2020.
  5. ^Moro, Marianne (Leaf Group). 'Travel Tips: Atlantic City Casino Tours'. USA Today.
  6. ^'THE EXPERTS GUIDE TO COMPS'. www.smartgaming.com. Retrieved 2016-01-13.
  7. ^'CASINO COMPS & YOUR 'AVERAGE DAILY THEORETICAL''. N.E. Time Gambling. August 10, 2016. Archived from the original on October 28, 2018. Retrieved October 27, 2018.
  8. ^Coach Kitty. 'Gambling: Casino THEO: It's All About the Theo'. TravelZork.
  9. ^Scoblete, Frank. 'Getting the Most from Your Slot Play: Points, Bounceback, Mail Offers and Good Machines'. CasinoCenter.com. Retrieved October 30, 2018.
  10. ^Coach Kitty (April 19, 2017). 'Caesars Total Rewards Part 4: Generating Casino Offers (Marketing OFfers)'. TravelZork.
  11. ^Stevens, Michael (June 10, 2018). 'How Comps Work In Gambling (And How to Make Them Work for You)'. GamblingSites.org.
  12. ^ abRubin, Max (June 2001). Comp City. Huntington Press. ISBN978-0-929712-36-9.
  13. ^Scott, Jean (July 2005). The Frugal Gambler. Huntington Press. ISBN978-0-929712-40-6.
  14. ^'Comp Hustling'. Casinopedia. Retrieved October 27, 2018.
  15. ^Rubin, Max. Comp City.
  16. ^Rubin, Max. 'How to Get a Dollar in Casino Comps for Every Dime You Lose Gambling'. Gamblingsitesonline.org.
  17. ^'Casino bonuses'. Retrieved 2014-03-07.
  18. ^'No Deposit Bonus'. Retrieved 2019-05-24.

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